Four-decade resident of Japan here. While small towns might have their appeal, for me the real Japan is the Yamanote Line between Shinjuku and Ikebukuro on a Friday evening in summer, the cars packed with sweaty drunk and sober people of all kinds, talking and laughing and reading and looking at their phones and dozing off as they sway against each other when the train stops at Takadanobaba.
I traveled there in 2008, and had that precise experience! I always wondered whether I'd just been there on a particularly excellent night, or if it was a normal happening. I'm so glad to hear it's the latter!
I lived in a small village deep in the West Fukushima mountains for a bit. Population: ~1000.
The summers bustle with rice, baby's breath, and millions of dragonflies in the paddies. The mountain water is so clean it almost tastes sweet, and people keeps tight tabs on the comings and goings of each other.
It's one of the most densely alive places I've experienced, with food growing everywhere, even in the cracks of the driveway, and mountain creature sounds wafting about.
Heck, the place even casually boasts village remains dating all the way back to the mesolithic and the second oldest swamp in Japan.
I wouldn't say it's any more or less real Japanese than other places here, but it's definitely singular!
A friend of mine said they would love to move out from Tokyo to these towns - lower rent, much more nature - but as a foreigner you would be extremely isolated if your japanese is not perfect, and due to rampant racism.
It's not racism so much as conservative protectionism. The smaller the town, the more their functioning relies on the cooperative efforts of individuals. Like, the fire brigade is likely just a handful of farmers who agree to do drills and respond when necessary.
When that cooperative necessity permeates every part of your life, it's pretty natural to be slow to trust. Villages already have enough oddball characters that they don't really care about a random foreigner so much as they care whether you are dependable and trustworthy.
I've brought up the racism question to Japanese people I know who live in Japan (I've got reasons for traveling there multiple times a year). I've seen either two responses:
1. it doesn't exist
2. it does exist, and here is why it's acceptable!
The third one, which is the american response (it does exist and it is unacceptable) I haven't heard yet.
I've also heard people with darker complexions get an entirely different treatment - as in, it's not just foreigner but also, what kind.
While it's true a lot of people (particularly white Americans who've never experienced being a minority) will complain about minor things like just being treated differently, there are some obvious issues like housing discrimination, where you can be a incredibly high earner with a stable job, living in Japan for decades, and still be told no just because you're a foreigner. (To be fair, I think discriminating on visa length, time in Japan so far, income, job type is perfectly fine - just no reason to outright say no to all foreigners)
Small town living is kind of a different kettle of fish though. There can be lots of committees, local rules and association fees you're expected to take part in. Lots of these aren't really forced or regulated "by law", but someone from there is just expected to play into them. Lots of younger Japanese people and foreigners move there, learn about these and find them unbearable -and if you don't play ball you can be treated badly.
In rural areas though the main thing for foreigners is that you'll kind of become a town character "foreigner-san". Kind of unavoidable when you're the only foreign face many of these people will have ever met.
I think some foreigners have this dream if they assimilate enough people will just pretend they're not a foreigner anymore, which personally I think is unrealistic and silly - you are foreign. The truly happy people here find a way to integrate while coming to peace with the fact they're obviously different.
As a white American, I remember respecting the `NO WHITES` signs (as a people attempting to preserve their cultural identity, which I feel a nation is entitled)... even if it made finding a sauna to visit extremely difficult.
This was eighteen years ago, and I hope nothing has changed in Japan.
As a Jewish Hungarian, I remember respecting the `NEIN JUDE` signs (as a people attempting to preserve their cultural identity, which I feel a nation is entitled)... even if it made finding a shop to visit extremely difficult.
This was eighteen years ago, and I hope nothing has changed in Germany.
Not every form of discrimination is the holocaust.
It is very important to not be extreme when dealing with human ignorance. For mild cases of discrimination, especially those coming from fear and ignorance, engaging in full confrontation is not necessarily the most effective strategy to reduce said discrimination. It might actually increase it.
Now if faced with hate speech, that's a much higher degree. That needs a different strategy to reduce it.
But unless you are looking at actual segregation and genocide, dropping a Nazi accusation is hardly constructive.
One of the "justifications," should you desire to care for the Japanese POV, was explained this way:
We grew up in this small town all seeing each other naked; for outsiders to come in and disrupt their `normal`, would be disrespectful to their culture.
My native partner and I eventually found a large enough / open enough spa which allowed us both in without concern (we just had to travel more, which was fine/informative; and promise not to "be disrespectful" // fuck).
Definitely discrimination against non-Japanese might still be common in less-urban areas ... yet your "rewording" my comment to be Nazi-themed is (by your own perogative) just another unrelated confirmation of Godwin's Law.
Oh, sorry, are we supposed to respectfully inform someone why segregation is bad when they practically paraphrase the 14 words? I thought my wordplay got my point across pretty well, frankly.
What do you think about some of the religious communes / islands which do not allow women, outright, e.g. Okinoshima Island; Mount Athos.
What about places which exlude born-men?
Shouldn't tiny Nepal be allowed to massively restrict tourism/outsiders (should it so choose, as it does)?
Where/when are we going to be allowed to have these necessary conversations, without the spite/tone? People ought'ta be able to self-isolate, of their own choosing.
Also, even the Japanese that would accept an American as a friend or a tenant are not accepting of the standard American moral stance towards racism. I.e., to be accepted, you basically have to be tolerant of the racism in Japanese society: the Japanese have a very low tolerance for non-Japanese persons who try to change Japanese society. Or so I've gathered from people who've been to Japan, then written about it or spoken about it.
These are also the two answers you'd get asking white people in the jim crow south or apartheid south africa fwiw. Not saying japan is some racist hellhole just pointing out that the dominant social group doesn't have the clearest picture of these dynamics and even if they do they have extremely strong motivations to dismiss or downplay it.
In my experience, it's just the opposite in the countryside. Show even the slightest interest in speaking Japanese and respecting Japanese culture and norms, and you're shown a warm welcome, much warmer than a random Japanese stranger would be given, and much warmer than in the cities where people have gotten weary from repeated bad experiences with clueless tourists.
Four-decade resident of Japan here. While small towns might have their appeal, for me the real Japan is the Yamanote Line between Shinjuku and Ikebukuro on a Friday evening in summer, the cars packed with sweaty drunk and sober people of all kinds, talking and laughing and reading and looking at their phones and dozing off as they sway against each other when the train stops at Takadanobaba.
I traveled there in 2008, and had that precise experience! I always wondered whether I'd just been there on a particularly excellent night, or if it was a normal happening. I'm so glad to hear it's the latter!
I visited for the first time last year and I loved people watching at night in this area. It felt so alive.
Takadanobaba! Home of the Big Box, and that little underground jazz kissa/bar.
I lived in a small village deep in the West Fukushima mountains for a bit. Population: ~1000.
The summers bustle with rice, baby's breath, and millions of dragonflies in the paddies. The mountain water is so clean it almost tastes sweet, and people keeps tight tabs on the comings and goings of each other.
It's one of the most densely alive places I've experienced, with food growing everywhere, even in the cracks of the driveway, and mountain creature sounds wafting about.
Heck, the place even casually boasts village remains dating all the way back to the mesolithic and the second oldest swamp in Japan.
I wouldn't say it's any more or less real Japanese than other places here, but it's definitely singular!
TIL that "baby's breath" (gypsophila paniculata) [1] is the name of a decorative flower, common in larger arrangements as a backdrop.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsophila_paniculata
EDIT: Fixed typo in the latin.
What was the village?
https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%98%AD%E5%92%8C%E6%9D%91_...
Thank you! Perhaps I’ll pass through there someday.
A friend of mine said they would love to move out from Tokyo to these towns - lower rent, much more nature - but as a foreigner you would be extremely isolated if your japanese is not perfect, and due to rampant racism.
It's not racism so much as conservative protectionism. The smaller the town, the more their functioning relies on the cooperative efforts of individuals. Like, the fire brigade is likely just a handful of farmers who agree to do drills and respond when necessary.
When that cooperative necessity permeates every part of your life, it's pretty natural to be slow to trust. Villages already have enough oddball characters that they don't really care about a random foreigner so much as they care whether you are dependable and trustworthy.
I'm sure all those things are true, but racism is also ever present.
I've brought up the racism question to Japanese people I know who live in Japan (I've got reasons for traveling there multiple times a year). I've seen either two responses:
1. it doesn't exist
2. it does exist, and here is why it's acceptable!
The third one, which is the american response (it does exist and it is unacceptable) I haven't heard yet.
I've also heard people with darker complexions get an entirely different treatment - as in, it's not just foreigner but also, what kind.
While it's true a lot of people (particularly white Americans who've never experienced being a minority) will complain about minor things like just being treated differently, there are some obvious issues like housing discrimination, where you can be a incredibly high earner with a stable job, living in Japan for decades, and still be told no just because you're a foreigner. (To be fair, I think discriminating on visa length, time in Japan so far, income, job type is perfectly fine - just no reason to outright say no to all foreigners)
Small town living is kind of a different kettle of fish though. There can be lots of committees, local rules and association fees you're expected to take part in. Lots of these aren't really forced or regulated "by law", but someone from there is just expected to play into them. Lots of younger Japanese people and foreigners move there, learn about these and find them unbearable -and if you don't play ball you can be treated badly.
In rural areas though the main thing for foreigners is that you'll kind of become a town character "foreigner-san". Kind of unavoidable when you're the only foreign face many of these people will have ever met.
I think some foreigners have this dream if they assimilate enough people will just pretend they're not a foreigner anymore, which personally I think is unrealistic and silly - you are foreign. The truly happy people here find a way to integrate while coming to peace with the fact they're obviously different.
As a white American, I remember respecting the `NO WHITES` signs (as a people attempting to preserve their cultural identity, which I feel a nation is entitled)... even if it made finding a sauna to visit extremely difficult.
This was eighteen years ago, and I hope nothing has changed in Japan.
As a Jewish Hungarian, I remember respecting the `NEIN JUDE` signs (as a people attempting to preserve their cultural identity, which I feel a nation is entitled)... even if it made finding a shop to visit extremely difficult.
This was eighteen years ago, and I hope nothing has changed in Germany.
Not every form of discrimination is the holocaust.
It is very important to not be extreme when dealing with human ignorance. For mild cases of discrimination, especially those coming from fear and ignorance, engaging in full confrontation is not necessarily the most effective strategy to reduce said discrimination. It might actually increase it.
Now if faced with hate speech, that's a much higher degree. That needs a different strategy to reduce it.
But unless you are looking at actual segregation and genocide, dropping a Nazi accusation is hardly constructive.
Holy projection, batman. I deliberately copied the comment verbatim and changed to an extreme example to demonstrate the problems with it.
Anyways, a "no whites" sign is definitely "actual segregation" and I'm not going to debate it or any apologia (which is what your comment is).
One of the "justifications," should you desire to care for the Japanese POV, was explained this way:
We grew up in this small town all seeing each other naked; for outsiders to come in and disrupt their `normal`, would be disrespectful to their culture.
My native partner and I eventually found a large enough / open enough spa which allowed us both in without concern (we just had to travel more, which was fine/informative; and promise not to "be disrespectful" // fuck).
Definitely discrimination against non-Japanese might still be common in less-urban areas ... yet your "rewording" my comment to be Nazi-themed is (by your own perogative) just another unrelated confirmation of Godwin's Law.
> just another unrelated confirmation of Godwin's Law.
Yeah, I workshopped it with "Irish need not apply" but it just didn't hit the same.
What does this sort of wordplay ever add to any conversation? The topic is small towns in Japan, not a survey of Jewish complaints from 100 years ago.
Oh, sorry, are we supposed to respectfully inform someone why segregation is bad when they practically paraphrase the 14 words? I thought my wordplay got my point across pretty well, frankly.
>why segregation is bad
What do you think about some of the religious communes / islands which do not allow women, outright, e.g. Okinoshima Island; Mount Athos.
What about places which exlude born-men?
Shouldn't tiny Nepal be allowed to massively restrict tourism/outsiders (should it so choose, as it does)?
Where/when are we going to be allowed to have these necessary conversations, without the spite/tone? People ought'ta be able to self-isolate, of their own choosing.
Also, even the Japanese that would accept an American as a friend or a tenant are not accepting of the standard American moral stance towards racism. I.e., to be accepted, you basically have to be tolerant of the racism in Japanese society: the Japanese have a very low tolerance for non-Japanese persons who try to change Japanese society. Or so I've gathered from people who've been to Japan, then written about it or spoken about it.
Most people complaining have never lived somewhere as a minority or immigrant before and it's a shock to them.
No shit you are completely different to 99% of the country culturally and visually and people treat you differently. Who would have guessed.
These are also the two answers you'd get asking white people in the jim crow south or apartheid south africa fwiw. Not saying japan is some racist hellhole just pointing out that the dominant social group doesn't have the clearest picture of these dynamics and even if they do they have extremely strong motivations to dismiss or downplay it.
[flagged]
I don't quite understand you, maybe you could tell me more about what I feel.
In my experience, it's just the opposite in the countryside. Show even the slightest interest in speaking Japanese and respecting Japanese culture and norms, and you're shown a warm welcome, much warmer than a random Japanese stranger would be given, and much warmer than in the cities where people have gotten weary from repeated bad experiences with clueless tourists.
"Where the Real Japan Resides" lol
Only Miyazaki’s Japan is canon.
Wake up sheeple, the Japanese in Tokyo are all government drones! ...falls into deep thought
Granny is making Canada great again there, with the maple leaf tempura.